Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

pjl44 said:

static111 said:

pjl44 said:

static111 said:

pjl44 said:

static111 said:

The king of Trickle Down, Union Busting, pension stripping, contra starting, Proxy Latin American wars and really the beginning of the downsloping shit ride that led directly to Trump. Why anyone sees him as a hero is beyond me. Why the party that claims to be aligned with progressive liberal politics would think it is good to be aligned in anyway with that dirt bag is inconceivable.

They're just trying to woo Reagan Republicans by moving them away from Trump. From your perspective, I'd only be concerned if Biden was aligning himself with Reagan in crafting his platform. Otherwise if you can use that sort of message to get people to vote for you without compromising your agenda, that's a win.

After the dust settles from this election there is going to be a Gordian knot of Republican and Democrat interests intersecting and intertwining that is going to have to be swiftly cut.  As soon as Biden wins, so called republicans against trump don’t get to stand around and get patted on the back as saviors of democracy and the Democratic Party.  Last time a truly horrible Republican president left the office in disgrace(Nixon), the Democratic Party welcomed moderate republicans with open arms which helped drift the national discourse further right.  Please let’s not do that again.

Sounds like unity to me. Maybe I was wrong!

Snark aside, that's the gamble someone in your shoes is taking by voting Biden, right? I honestly have no idea how it plays out except that historically the machine always wins. Even though I didn't vote for Obama, after he won I was like "ok, at least we got a person who seems serious about ending these wars and staunchly defending civil liberties." 8 years later...

Lol.  Yeah Obama talked a good game.   He was still the best president in my lifetime though.  If I wasn’t completely aware of the fact that trump is a dangerous and incomparable pos and Biden was against a run of the mill Republican, I would vote third party. It’s just maddening that it takes a person as despicable as trump to get people to some type of fractured unity. I mean there really are worse problems than trump out there and if everyone were to rally around homelessness or poverty or racism or income inequality the way they have rallied around being against Trump some progress could be made. But it’s much easier to say trump is the worst, get him out of office and then forget about the rest of it I guess.

To your point, when is the last time you heard a serious conversation about police reform? Is Congress going to even put anything up for a vote before Labor Day? We're a nation of parakeets and we're on to other shit. Frustrating as hell.

OnWis97 said:

static111 said:

pjl44 said:

static111 said:

pjl44 said:

static111 said:

pjl44 said:

static111 said:

The king of Trickle Down, Union Busting, pension stripping, contra starting, Proxy Latin American wars and really the beginning of the downsloping shit ride that led directly to Trump. Why anyone sees him as a hero is beyond me. Why the party that claims to be aligned with progressive liberal politics would think it is good to be aligned in anyway with that dirt bag is inconceivable.

They're just trying to woo Reagan Republicans by moving them away from Trump. From your perspective, I'd only be concerned if Biden was aligning himself with Reagan in crafting his platform. Otherwise if you can use that sort of message to get people to vote for you without compromising your agenda, that's a win.

After the dust settles from this election there is going to be a Gordian knot of Republican and Democrat interests intersecting and intertwining that is going to have to be swiftly cut.  As soon as Biden wins, so called republicans against trump don’t get to stand around and get patted on the back as saviors of democracy and the Democratic Party.  Last time a truly horrible Republican president left the office in disgrace(Nixon), the Democratic Party welcomed moderate republicans with open arms which helped drift the national discourse further right.  Please let’s not do that again.

Sounds like unity to me. Maybe I was wrong!

Snark aside, that's the gamble someone in your shoes is taking by voting Biden, right? I honestly have no idea how it plays out except that historically the machine always wins. Even though I didn't vote for Obama, after he won I was like "ok, at least we got a person who seems serious about ending these wars and staunchly defending civil liberties." 8 years later...

Lol.  Yeah Obama talked a good game.   He was still the best president in my lifetime though.  If I wasn’t completely aware of the fact that trump is a dangerous and incomparable pos and Biden was against a run of the mill Republican, I would vote third party. It’s just maddening that it takes a person as despicable as trump to get people to some type of fractured unity. I mean there really are worse problems than trump out there and if everyone were to rally around homelessness or poverty or racism or income inequality the way they have rallied around being against Trump some progress could be made. But it’s much easier to say trump is the worst, get him out of office and then forget about the rest of it I guess.

To your point, when is the last time you heard a serious conversation about police reform? Is Congress going to even put anything up for a vote before Labor Day? We're a nation of parakeets and we're on to other shit. Frustrating as hell.

I know our establishment Democrat mayor in Austin just endorsed a pro cop DA even though there is a viable candidate with actual reform policy bonafides that has been endorsed by Warren, Sanders, Castro.  On the national level it is clearly more important to pontificate at this moment and allow justice reform to get sidelined while also ignoring the eviction and economic crises that are happening in concert with the oft ignored pandemic.

I'm not into "both-sidesing" these days but when it comes to the creation, and lack of reform, of an incredibly flawed and racist criminal justice system, Dems are not even a little bit better than Republicans.  Unfortunately, "tough on crime" is an easy sell with people of all political persuasions and the criminal justice system is piled with people looking to "win" and "close cases."  I've done some reading about the difficulty of getting wrongful convictions overturned (read this, it's fascinating) and at the local level, DAs (and police chiefs, etc.) are needed to change the culture and the processes and the public's understanding of why innocent people confess, how awful witness IDs are, and how biased lineups can be. At a national level, Dems need to take leadership on more than just headline-grabbing "crime legislation." 

All that said, Trump I (in my white upper-middle-class bubble, I admit) view Trump as priority number 1 right now.  The longer he and his family and/or disciples are in charge, the more the United States starts to exist in his image. Then you can forget about any of the reforms you want to see.

The Juggler said:

mickeyrat said:

has this been posted yet?

 

https://twitter.com/JonnyGeller/status/1280555059424776192?s=20

I've said this before but Republicans are SO MUCH better at this stuff than Democrats are. This is fantastic. I want to start seeing them on tv though. 

The fact that some dems have a hard time recognizing that these folks are helping their cause is mind boggling to me. Let these Lincoln Logs do what they do best----get down and dirty and drag Trump down with their negative ads. They're doing Biden's dirty work for him. It's brilliant...and it's working.